Tag Archives: Valdosta

Cincinnati (and Valdosta) Streetcars

Here's another form of transit that could nicely complement busses and commuter rail: streetcars. The New York Times mentions several cities that have reimplemented streetcar systems. Pictured here is a potential plan for yet another city: Austin, Texas:

Nwtc-front-pic

As a Cincinnati streetcar proponent says:

“We have to plan for the future,” he said. “I believe in 10 years, we would ask, ‘Why didn’t we do this?’ It will be 10 times more expensive, and the cost of gas will be unaffordable.”

— Downtowns Across the U.S. See Streetcars in Their Future, By BOB DRIEHAUS, New York Times, Published: August 13, 2008

Valdosta likes to be visible nationally (TitleTown), so think about this:
After looking into streetcar systems in Seattle, Tacoma, Wash., and Charlotte, Mr. Dohoney became convinced that they spur growth. “Cincinnati has to compete with other cities for investment,” he said. “We have to compete for talent and for place of national prominence.”
Yet that could be growth without sprawl:
[streetcars] serve to shrink residents’ everyday world of work, shopping and entertainment by bringing services and businesses to one area.
That's a feature attractive not only to city dwellers, but also to us plowboys out here in the country who like to go to the city but don't want the city coming to us. Valdosta used to have a streetcar system. I don't remember it in use, but I do remember seeing remnants of its rails in a few streets. Streetcars would probably be more expensive to implement than commuter rail, because tracks would have to be laid and automobile traffic would have to be organized around it. Commuter rail using existing freight tracks would be easier to do first. But now while Valdosta is planning ahead would be a good time to see about fitting streetcars into the plan.

The Royal Palm, Valdosta, and Jacksonville

There used to be a train called the Royal Palm that ran from Detroit and Buffalo via Cincinnati, Atlanta, and Macon to Jacksonville. This schedule is for 1953:

Southernnewroyalpalm1953

Jacksonville Transit Blog brings this up while quoting a Valdosta Daily Times article about Valdosta's new transportation plan. Hm, 5 million people in Atlanta, 3/4 million in Jacksonville, and Valdosta halfway in between….

Central Florida Commuter Rail

DMU Exterior View Meanwhile, four hours to the south, Central Florida Commuter Rail Sunrail has received planning commission approval to start a commuter rail line centered on Orlando:
Existing CSXT railroad tracks are utilized for the planned route. CRT trains consist of 1-3 cars and can carry up to 218 passengers. Maximum operating speed is generally between 65-79 mph.
Hm, using existing CSX tracks, just like the GS&F (now CSX) route from Hahira through Mineola, Remerton, Valdosta, Dasher, and Lake Park.

Valdosta, Moultrie & Western Railroad, Ga. 133, and Corridor Z

Reading about the committee wanting to widen Ga. 133 from Valdosta through Moultrie to Albany made me wonder if there had ever been a railroad on that route. Why yes, there was:

VM&W RR Map 1920

Source: Rand McNally Standard Map of Georgia, in Commercial Atlas of America, 1920, found on Georgia's Railroad History & Heritage. by Steve Storey

It ran two trains each way each day in 1918 (one was different on Sunday):

VM&W RR Timetable 1918

Source: Official Guide of the Railways, April 1918, found on Georgia's Railroad History & Heritage. by Steve Storey

Like Valdosta earlier on a different railroad, the town of Berlin was founded because of the VM&W RR.

Unfortunately, it was short-lived, lasting only from 1910 to 1921. Its demise seems to have been connected with

…the final depletion of the vast supply of timber about 1922 and the railroad systems which had played such an important role in the flourishing development of Berlin ceased operations.

— The Origin of Berlin, Berlin Community Volunteer Fire Department Station 31, Berlin, Georgia, accessed 10 August 2008

It's hard to tell from that brief quotation whether the end of the timber caused the failure of the railroads, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was a factor.

I see the Lowndes County Commission has on its agenda for Tuesday 12 August a "Resolution in Support of a Four-Lane Project for State Hwy 133 from Albany to Valdosta. This is the same resolution that was before Colquitt County Commission on August 5.

Before the Lowndes County Commission votes, it would be useful to know what have been the effects of Corridor Z, the four lane highway from Jekyll Island to Columbus by way of Tifton and Albany, also known as Ga. Route 520. Has it produced the effects the committee for widening Ga. 133 wants? Has it benefited agriculture and industry? Has it led to more opportunities? What ill effects on local landowners and environment did its construction have?

And what do the people think who live along the route of Ga. 133?

Current Owners of Valdosta Train Stations

So who owns the land where the old Valdosta train stations were?

The old Atlantic Coast Line station lot, at the U-turn between Patterson and Ashley just north of the downtown overpass, is owned by the City of Valdosta. That's kind of moot, since there are no tracks there now.

The old Georgia & Florida Station lot between Toombs and Patterson and between Savannah and Florida is owned by Lowndes County, as shown here:

Stationowners

As found on Lowndes County Property Record Search by searching for owner CSX.

The county Health Department is in the middle of it, but the tracks run against the back parking lot. These are the tracks that go to Moody.

And the old Georgia and Florida station lot, just south of that, is owned by CSX, as part of a strip along their tracks from Toombs St. to Railroad Ave.:

CSX TRANSPORTATION INC
TAX DEPARTMENT C-910
500 WATER STREET
JACKSONVILLE, FL 32202

The old GSF Station lot, just south of that, between Toombs and Patterson and north of Florida Ave., is owned by Norfolk and Southern.

NORFOLK SOUTHERN RAILWAY CO & SUBSID
C/O GULF & OHIO RAILWAYS
PO BOX 2408
KNOXVILLE, TN 379012408

It looks from the aerial maps like it's being used for a park, and there's some sort of tiny building on it, too. These are the tracks that go to Hahira, Mineola, Remerton, Dasher, and Lake Park.

If you select aerial photography you'll see that the tracks are currently located slightly differently than the map above shows.

However, it appears that new Valdosta train stations could be constructed with agreement from nobody other than Lowndes County and the railroads. Well, them and the planning commission, and the county commission, and the Valdosta City Council, and the various cities the passenger service would run to. But the Valdosta station land itself seems to be in the hands of a small number of appropriate parties.

Valdosta Train Stations

In The TitleTown Express, I guessed at where a Valdosta train station should go. I was thinking where West Hill Ave. crosses the GS&F line from Hahira, but that’s a mile from downtown: too far out. Why not look to see where the Valdosta train station was before? Well, it seems there was not one, not two, but three stations in Valdosta, at least in 1919:

Valdosta, Georgia Train Stations, 1919

Source map found in Perry-Castañeda Library Map Collection, University of Texas at Austin

There was one station each for:

Atlantic Coast Line R.R.
between Patterson and Ashley just N. of Savannah Ave.,
where the U-turn now is before the overpass;
these tracks were rerouted when the overpass was built;
ironic considering that’s the line that caused Valdosta to be located where it is

Georgia and Florida R.R.
W. of Patterson between Savannah Ave. and Branch St. (now W. Florida Ave.) about at where S. Toombs St. now crosses;
these tracks go under the overpass;
these are the tracks that go to Moody

Georgia Southern & Florida R.R.
Just W. of Patterson S. on Branch St. (now W. Florida Ave.);
these tracks go under the overpass;
these are the tracks that go to Hahira, Mineola, Remerton, Dasher, and Lake Park
All next to Patterson Street south of Hill Ave., and within easy walking distance of each other and downtown.

So 2 out of 3 station locations still have running tracks (and the third I think also has running tracks; they were just rerouted to go under the underpass). I have no idea who owns the station footprints. Wouldn’t have to be precisely the same locations, anyway; somewhere within a block or two would have the same advantages of accessibility to each other and to downtown.

-jsq